Hmm 6 months... MSG? 
If someone got legit sick and used IV, it's ok. But what if he used PEDs via IV afterwards - will his initial IV use mask his subsequent IV PED use?
mister_sticks - If someone got legit sick and used IV, it's ok. But what if he used PEDs via IV afterwards - will his initial IV use mask his subsequent IV PED use?
no, the other way around
If it's true that you can get iv from a doctor if legit needed then that seems ok. but if BJ is self-administering iv's that is Lance Armstrong level sketchy and very likely to mask some blood doping so i don't have an issue with a violation.
Yeah it sucks the fight is off but any fighter in UFC should Know the USADA rules inside and out and if your not 100% sre then simply contact them for assurance before you stick an iv in your arm.
keiths - That's bullshit. Right on par for suspending people for weed
yep
Chomas - I'm confused. Why does it matter he used an IV this far before the fight?
Because it can dilute EPO and other illegal blood doping agents and fuck up the detection thresholds.
Some things OP got wrong.
1) I believe it's only when a fight is scheduled
and
2) You're allowed to use IV, it's just that once you reach a certain amount (much higher than what someone would normally need), you need to either go to a hospital or demand a TUE to explain yourself. E.g. the reason Mayweather got so much shit was his medicals showed NO signs of dehydration when he used a tremendous amount of IV bags, implying an attempt to dilute EPO
If BJ was in serious medical need he should be going to a hospital, not just popping open personal IV bags and if it was a condition that would require regular IV usage, he should've gotten a TUE
baj54 -blackhundred -That is correct, there are ways around this but most people don't take the extra precaution. I'll always be a BJ Penn fan but ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. Do I think IV use prior to a fight is BS? Absolutely, but you can't blame usada. They have it all in fine print what you can and can not do. I'm also thinking if he reported the use of an iv he knew that he wouldn't be able to mask the use and that's why he reported it, not because he didn't know about it. I also feel that this has something to do with upcoming investigation. Which I feel will be squashed pretty easily. The UFC doesn't want the bad press. Penn gets a "suspension" for 6 months and by that time the investigation is over with. Everything returns to normal life as we know it.An Old Shoe - How does usada know if someone used iv?
I think there are preservatives that can be identified from the actual plastic they are contained in, if I recall.
For the record, I'm not even saying it's a good policy... Quite frankly, I dislike all the USADA shit, but people seem to seriously misunderstand the rules and reasons here.
This is a transcript of the Rogan-Conte interview where he explains it. I also posted this on the other BJ thread:
Joe Rogan: What’s the reason why they can’t use an IV? Is it to mask possible performance enhancing drugs?
Jeff Novitzky: That’s the primary reason. I saw it up front and center in cycling. They were using IVs of saline solution to manipulate their blood level readings, which were being used to determine if they were blood doping. It could also be used to flush a system. It dilutes blood and urine so that natural steroid profiles are very hard to read after you’ve taken an IV bag. That’s the primary reason. WADA also prohibits them for some health reasons. When an IV is administered, especially close to a competition, there’s a possibility of blowing out a vein or having clotting after the IV is taken out. There could be some issues with edema and swelling. If the idea is to rehydrate, it’s much safer to do it orally. Studies show that orally rehydrating is better for you if you’re mildly dehydrated. There’s two things that they show consistently. Number one, it’s obviously safer to put something through your mouth than put it in a needle in your vein. Number two, your perceived rate of exertion, how hard you feel you’re working after rehydrating orally, is less than if you rehydrate via IV. If you rehydrate orally properly, the next day you’re going to feel a whole lot better when you’re exerting yourself.”
“Now that’s mild dehydration,” Novitzky added. Where extreme dehydration is concerned, Novitzky suggested, “You probably should go to a hospital. [And] I think you need to notify the commission where you’re fighting.”
Sports fans now know that an IV infusion can dilute or mask the presence of another substance that is already in an athlete’s system or might be added to the athlete’s system in the near future. Let’s put some meat on that statement, taking erythropoietin (EPO) as an example.
A person’s red and white blood cells are suspended in plasma (a fluid that, by itself, is yellow in color).
Red blood cells deliver oxygen to muscle tissue.
Erythropoietin is a hormone that stimulates the production of red blood cells. Synthetic EPO can be administered by injection and, by creating more red blood cells, increases the flow of oxygen to an athlete’s muscle tissue. It also hastens the removal of metabolic waste. As such, EPO increases an athlete’s aerobic capacity and endurance.
Once the desired level of EPO is reached in an athlete’s system, the level of red blood cells can be maintained by a weekly injection.
There are two ways to determine the presence of synthetic EPO in an athlete’s system. The first is a urine test that directly determines its presence. When EPO is administered by subcutaneous injection, it clears an athlete’s system in roughly 43 hours. If EPO is administered by IV, it clears an athlete’s system on average in 19 hours.
The second way to test for synthetic EPO is a hematocrit blood test. This test doesn’t directly measure the presence of EPO. Rather, it tests for the result of EPO administration.
A person’s hematocrit level is the percentage of red blood cells to that person’s total whole blood volume. The hematocrit level for an average adult male is roughly 45%. nything below 37% o above 51% idicates an irregularity.
If an athlete is using synthetic EPO, his or her hematocrit level rises. Adding saline solution to the athlete’s blood intravenously increases the plasma component of the blood, thus bringing down the ratio of red blood cells to total whole blood volume. As such, the saline solution reduces the athlete’s hematocrit level to an acceptable level.
Let’s say, hypothetically, that a hematocrit blood test would show that the percentage of red blood cells to an athlete’s total whole blood volume is 55%. f the athlete adds 750 milliliters (25.361 ounces) of saline solution and vitamins via IV, it won’t diminished the number of red blood cells in that athlete. His red blood cells will still be at an elevated level. But the percentage of red blood cells to that athlete’s total whole blood volume will drop to 47% bcause he will be increasing his total whole blood volume.
That’s an example of what is meant by “diluting and masking” through the use of an intravenous infusion.
MattyECB -It can also be used to administer vitamin and minerals that are deficient from overtraining.Chomas - I'm confused. Why does it matter he used an IV this far before the fight?Because it can dilute EPO and other illegal blood doping agents and fuck up the detection thresholds.
Some things OP got wrong.
1) I believe it's only when a fight is scheduledand
2) You're allowed to use IV, it's just that once you reach a certain amount (much higher than what someone would normally need), you need to either go to a hospital or demand a TUE to explain yourself. E.g. the reason Mayweather got so much shit was his medicals showed NO signs of dehydration when he used a tremendous amount of IV bags, implying an attempt to dilute EPO
If BJ was in serious medical need he should be going to a hospital, not just popping open personal IV bags and if it was a condition that would require regular IV usage, he should've gotten a TUE
IV is pretty common in high level athletes, I've known nba players to take iv's at halftime of games
So ya, this has nothing to do with weight cutting or health, and its directly related to the USADA being able to accurately assess blood doing through randomized testing...
Remember all you guys who were bitching about the lack of randomized testing and how virtually *anyone* could be blood doping without detection?
Well you got what you fucking wanted lol
Ray Elbe -MattyECB -It can also be used to administer vitamin and minerals that are deficient from overtraining.Chomas - I'm confused. Why does it matter he used an IV this far before the fight?Because it can dilute EPO and other illegal blood doping agents and fuck up the detection thresholds.
Some things OP got wrong.
1) I believe it's only when a fight is scheduledand
2) You're allowed to use IV, it's just that once you reach a certain amount (much higher than what someone would normally need), you need to either go to a hospital or demand a TUE to explain yourself. E.g. the reason Mayweather got so much shit was his medicals showed NO signs of dehydration when he used a tremendous amount of IV bags, implying an attempt to dilute EPO
If BJ was in serious medical need he should be going to a hospital, not just popping open personal IV bags and if it was a condition that would require regular IV usage, he should've gotten a TUE
IV is pretty common in high level athletes, I've known nba players to take iv's at halftime of games
Hence, I said I'm not necessarily in support of the law NOR do I think it's necessarily indicative of cheating. I'm just explaining that it's necessary if you want effective testing for blood doping.
Also, as I mentioned, it's allowed below a certain threshold (unless I'm misunderstanding the law), and the issue is that BJ used a large amount of IV drip in a very short time span. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding that last point, but that was the impression I got from the BE article. In no way am I an expert here
Ray Elbe -MattyECB -It can also be used to administer vitamin and minerals that are deficient from overtraining.Chomas - I'm confused. Why does it matter he used an IV this far before the fight?Because it can dilute EPO and other illegal blood doping agents and fuck up the detection thresholds.
Some things OP got wrong.
1) I believe it's only when a fight is scheduledand
2) You're allowed to use IV, it's just that once you reach a certain amount (much higher than what someone would normally need), you need to either go to a hospital or demand a TUE to explain yourself. E.g. the reason Mayweather got so much shit was his medicals showed NO signs of dehydration when he used a tremendous amount of IV bags, implying an attempt to dilute EPO
If BJ was in serious medical need he should be going to a hospital, not just popping open personal IV bags and if it was a condition that would require regular IV usage, he should've gotten a TUE
IV is pretty common in high level athletes, I've known nba players to take iv's at halftime of games
and this is straight up doping.
My guess it was administered to get over a bad hangover. Which is done all the time for athletes. Sad if that is what killed a good fight.
sixdog - My guess it was administered to get over a bad hangover. Which is done all the time for athletes. Sad if that is what killed a good fight.
if it was this simple, he could easily have said that and everybody would understand, but he didn't.
baj54 -Why not use a glass IV?blackhundred -That is correct, there are ways around this but most people don't take the extra precaution. I'll always be a BJ Penn fan but ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. Do I think IV use prior to a fight is BS? Absolutely, but you can't blame usada. They have it all in fine print what you can and can not do. I'm also thinking if he reported the use of an iv he knew that he wouldn't be able to mask the use and that's why he reported it, not because he didn't know about it. I also feel that this has something to do with upcoming investigation. Which I feel will be squashed pretty easily. The UFC doesn't want the bad press. Penn gets a "suspension" for 6 months and by that time the investigation is over with. Everything returns to normal life as we know it.An Old Shoe - How does usada know if someone used iv?
I think there are preservatives that can be identified from the actual plastic they are contained in, if I recall.
Highly doubt bj could just say i drank too much beer last night and wanted to rehydrate because i was hanging. Imo i honestly think he was trying to see if he could still cut the weight as easily as before and was a doing a test run to still see if he had it. Needed to rehydrate so he went the the doctors to administer an iv drip for rehydration.
TFK_Vulva Fabulous -The iv fluid us typically stored and shipped and used in those plastic iv bags. Fighters would need a clean iv fluid source that never got exposed to plastic for long enough to get infused by plastic particles.baj54 -Why not use a glass IV?blackhundred -That is correct, there are ways around this but most people don't take the extra precaution. I'll always be a BJ Penn fan but ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. Do I think IV use prior to a fight is BS? Absolutely, but you can't blame usada. They have it all in fine print what you can and can not do. I'm also thinking if he reported the use of an iv he knew that he wouldn't be able to mask the use and that's why he reported it, not because he didn't know about it. I also feel that this has something to do with upcoming investigation. Which I feel will be squashed pretty easily. The UFC doesn't want the bad press. Penn gets a "suspension" for 6 months and by that time the investigation is over with. Everything returns to normal life as we know it.An Old Shoe - How does usada know if someone used iv?
I think there are preservatives that can be identified from the actual plastic they are contained in, if I recall.
Jump Kick -TFK_Vulva Fabulous -The iv fluid us typically stored and shipped and used in those plastic iv bags. Fighters would need a clean iv fluid source that never got exposed to plastic for long enough to get infused by plastic particles.baj54 -Why not use a glass IV?blackhundred -That is correct, there are ways around this but most people don't take the extra precaution. I'll always be a BJ Penn fan but ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. Do I think IV use prior to a fight is BS? Absolutely, but you can't blame usada. They have it all in fine print what you can and can not do. I'm also thinking if he reported the use of an iv he knew that he wouldn't be able to mask the use and that's why he reported it, not because he didn't know about it. I also feel that this has something to do with upcoming investigation. Which I feel will be squashed pretty easily. The UFC doesn't want the bad press. Penn gets a "suspension" for 6 months and by that time the investigation is over with. Everything returns to normal life as we know it.An Old Shoe - How does usada know if someone used iv?
I think there are preservatives that can be identified from the actual plastic they are contained in, if I recall.
I don't think making saline would be particularly difficult.
apple = correct.
Dogman -keiths - That's bullshit. Right on par for suspending people for weed
yep
nope.
Erik, why don't you ask BJ what he used an IV for and clear this whole misunderstanding up for us?