VEGETARIAN DIET AND THE GORILLA AND GORILLA TURDS?

Underground S&C Underground
41

[quote[ Taku -
Beef (bison, etc) is always free-range, grass fed, organic.

The trouble with grass fed is that it takes twice as long and more land to produce the same beef. Fine for the privileged few, I suppose, but not the best solution for society overall.

Thing is, we slaughtered our own beef, one or two steers a year. They were fed out in the feedlot, for a reason.

Taku - I use protein powder that has no colors, additives, flavors etc. <br />

Protein powder? Where do you think it comes from - it's an industrial chemical, processed milk or soybeans, hardly organic. What happens to the bi-products of processing?

Mostly, as I understand, is used for animal feed, and fed to feedlot animals. So how can you use processed protein, but only eat free-range beef? Seems wasteful, to me.

Taku -I consume a good amount of leafy greens, fresh fruits, raw nuts and seeds, etc.

That much is good, but it would be better to grow your own, Shipping fresh fruits and vegetables involves shipping a lot of water; grains are concentrated forms of plant material and don't require refigeration.

Taku -
I avoid bread, pasta (all refined carbs).

I can see avoiding white flour, but not whole grain.

But by avoiding wheat, you further reduce efficiency of land use.

West river, South Dakota, is very dry country. Little rain during the growing season. Most farmers plant, for grain production, winter wheat, typically in rotation with alfalfa or hay. It's historically been a cattle producing region, largely because winter wheat is the only really reliable crop.

Winter wheat is planted in the fall, germinates and grows briefly, then hibernates through the winter. In the spring, it starts growing again and can take advantage of recent snow thaws for moisture, and can complete it's growth cycle before the onset of summer drought. Most other crop plants can only be planted after the initial thaw has dried enough to allow tilling; then you have to hope for rain during the season. Doesn't always happen.

Taku - Don't eat beans or potato's either.

You should, if you care about the environment. They can be grown in regions not particularly suitable for other crops. And, of course, beans being legumes are good for the soil.


Taku -My body seems to function best on this sort of plan. I have experimented with many approaches and this one "feels" best for me.


That's certainly a reasonable approach, but don't confuse functional choices with ethical ones.

42

herwil10 - One really good reason for the difference between the size and muscle that Gorillas pack on with a vegetarian diet versus how humans struggle to get big and lean on diets with vastly more protein: Humans burn/metabolize protein and muscle, Gorillas don't. At least not nearly at the same rate as humans. Its all do to myostatin levels--the hormone that tells the body to burn its muscle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myostatin

Ever seen pictures of a myostatin deficient cow? Those things are pure muscle off a diet of grass...

http://www.who-sucks.com/wp-content/uploads/icons//2007/07/myostatin_deficient_cow.jpg


Well, myostatin is one of the many factors involved in regulation of muscle growth and development, but it really has little to do with the difference between apes and humans.

Gorillas certainly metabolize protein and muscle - all living things. There's in inherent degree of turnover in all cell protein.

The myostatin deficient cattle breed is simply a genetic anomaly. Most likely, the difference between apes and humans is a tendency for endurance activities - walking and running, or striding bipedalism as it's commonly referred to. That most likely dictates the balance of lean muscle mass in humans.

43

blacksamurai - 

Okay my MMA trainer has been vegetarian for almost to years he is always telling us after sparring, rolling etc that the biggest strongest animals in the animal kingdom do not eat meat mainly the gorilla, but was watching tosh the other day, and he showed a gorilla eating his own turds right out the popper he caught with his hand then ate it!

So what is lacking in a gorillas diet to make him eat his own turds is this the way
They get b vitamins cause i was told by a friend of mind that its hard to get b vitamins without heat, fire etc is this the case? Phone Post


Tell your trainer to look at the size of a gorilla's gut, not the size of its delts.

To gain muscle mass from plant material requires, well, a lot of plant material, because most wild plant material is high in fiber and low in protein. Proper digestion, specially if the diet is mostly vegetative material (leaves, that is, and not seed) requires a lot of intestinal volume. Look at the gut on a horse or cow, sometime, compared to a hogs belly.

The other problem is that vegetable material can't be completely digested on the first pass. This is why cows chew their cud - they chew and swallow grass, let it digest for a time, then spit it back up for more chewing.

Since apes done't have the extra stomaches that ruminants have, they need to wait for the first pass to go all the way through, to start the second. Probably not so much for the softer leafy bits, but certainly seeds and nuts.

44

Well that answers the gorilla turd eating question.

I've learned from this thread. That's excellent.

45
dakotajudo - 
ravenman2000 - 
Taku - 

Hey Arthur,

What I meant was that industrialized farming is one of the worst things for the planet. If we assume all vegans are totally concious of the source of their food...Then perhaps in theory it's not bad. But I feel many people are not aware. Farming on the super scale at which it is done today, is one of the worst things going for the planet.

So...what I was implying is that if you feel that just because you eat a plant based diet, it is better for the earth...you are mistaken.

Hope that's clear.

TAKU

 

I am a heavy meat eater myself, but to be fair, eating a plant-based diet is better for the earth because it reduces industrialized farming.  This is due to the fact that the majority of crops are grown in order to *drum roll* produce feed for the animals we eat.  If we were all to eat plants instead of those animals, then the increase in the amount of plants we eat would still fall very, very short of the amount of plant matter those animals were eating.  Of course, hunting and catching wild fish (which I also do) resolves this issue, but with the current population, it wouldn't be feasible for everyone to rely on that for subsistence.

 


Hunting and fishing doesn't necessarily resolve the issue.

If you come pheasant hunt in South Dakota, there's a good change you end up shooting farmed pheasants.

There's a lot of money to be made selling hunting vacations, and a lot of people have converted good farmland over commercial hunting preserves, at $1000 per gun, per day. These guys expect to shoot birds, so they're raised commercially, much like chickens, then released for the hunt.

Similar with fishing - the more popular fishing areas are stocked. Hunting and fishing in many areas has become just as industrialized as agriculture in many areas, for the same reasons - too many people, not enough land.

Do you know who stewards the land you hunt and fish on?

Yes, as someone who grew up commercial fishing, having worked several years in industrial seafood processing, and having done scientific research for state and federal fish and wildlife offices; and also as someone who hunts and fishes for subsistence (never been to a commercial hunting area, or an area with stocked fish or game).  Not that it makes a differernce to the thread or the points I've made (listing qualifications/experience don't, imo, have much place in public internet discussions).  Of course, the sport hunts you are talking about aren't really a subsistence source of food for those "rich white fuckers" (OG'ism); it's recreation more than a food staple.

Ultimately, I agree with everything you've written-- ONLY if you note this as applicable only to areas like the US (especially the farming issues you addressed), or even areas like Japan, but this whole idea of destroying natural habitat to make room for crops to feed animals, at least as I was reading the thread, has little to do with farming in countries like the US.  But I'm sure you know that the situation is entirely different in, say, Brazil, where farming of beef results in massive deforestation.  It would be like me comparing responsible seafood harvest in British Columbia or Maine to the unsustainable methods done out of Taiwan.

 

lol @ vermonter's comment, I hope this clarifies the gorilla issue for OP.  Also lol @ looking at the gorlilla's gut rather than its delts.

Returning to thread topic, these guys train for gorilla physique:

 

 

46

dakotajudo,

Hey brother, WOW...you can really type.

I don't believe I said that I base my eating, shopping etc choices on science. I base my choices on my needs, preferences, goals, abilities, limitations, etc.

90% of the time I buy my fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy, fish etc all from local famers markets. Most often I know these people personally. When I say local I mean from within my state. My state is large, so this does not mean I can walk on over and pick the stuff. I do live in a city (urban area) and do not have a yard or place to grow my own stuff. A;though I do have some freinds and family near by who do grow some fruitss and veggies. I avail myself of these as often as possible.

I don;t eat wheat, potato, rice, beans, etc because I don't like them. I (like many people) base many of my food eating choices on personal preference...it's not always about other things. Some people like chocolate, some people like beer...I like neither. Not because they are healthy or un-healthy, but because I don't like the way they taste. I am not a fan of bread, pasta...I have also found that my body seems to function better when I omit all processed carbs. I get my carbs from fruits and veggies.

I have recently made a switch away from whey protein. Most of my protein comes from meat, chicken, eggs etc. I do eat raw milk from local farms (because I like it).

Do you personally feel that Monsanto has the peoples best interest at the heart of what they do? I do not feel this is the case. All other things asside, if we differ on this point, I feel neither of us will sway the other regardless of how compelling our arguments may or may not be.

TAKU

47
Gokudamus stole my name - "After reading all that all I can think of is LOL"

I get the same reaction every time i read your vegan hipster diet "advice"

 

nice try but I am neither vegan nor a hipster and my advice has gained me two Olympians and over 2 dozen division I athletes not to mention over a thousand people whose doctors personally thank me for their patients amazing blood work :)

 

 

. What has your advice done? 

48

big_slacker - You don't work on routers, firewalls and host protection. You can't complain about your internet being slow or viruses on your computer, I'm pissed off that you would even talk about it because you haven't waked a mile in my shoes!!!! I'll stop there because my main point isn't to mock you, I'm very happy you took the time to post some information about something you obviously care about. I just wanted to shut down that "no one who isn't in my industry can criticize obvious problems." argument. Anyone who is a scientist, engineer, teacher should be absolutely open to criticism because if you deal with it honestly it leads to the truth, even if the truth is something that doesn't jibe with your current views.

With that out of the way, I don't have an opinion about the effect of factory farming on the environment. I've not done any serious looking around in that area. But I'd like to hear about why/whether you think feedlot/cornfed beef is healthier or better than grass fed beef for humans regardless of whether an animal nutritionist designed their diet or not.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on whether it's a good or bad thing to label GMO based food products and whether its a good/bad thing that so many former employees of large food corporations end up in the FDA regulating their former industries?

BTW-I'm totally down with growing your own. My father in law has a half acre or so with a good variety of fruits/veggies, our neighbors have chickens, we do berries and I'm gonna do some kale and other stuff, although I'm limited cause it's a rental house.

Firewall, routers and host protection is a fair analogy, and one I considered.

I write software for crop scientist; most crop scientist use Windows, therefore I have to write Windows software.

But I hate, hate with a burning passion, Microsoft. Microsoft is the definition, the epitome of an evil, soul-less, join-us-on-the-Dark-side evil empire corporation. There are so many obvious and fundamental flaws in Microsoft software that I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily use it.

Worse yet, we're subsidizing Microsoft. I taught computer programming for a year at a public university. There were two full-time instructors teaching basic computer skills - word processing, spreadsheets, databases; one semester course.

But they weren't teaching "word-processing", "spreadsheets", "databases", they were teaching how to use Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Access. That's how deeply Microsoft has infiltrated the public education system in this country.


Obviously, I'm going a little over the top.

But this is what I think about, when I see people complain about Monsanto; the difference is more people can appreciate how Microsoft products simplify their lives; they don't see that for Monsanto.

I'm not a IT expert. But I have enough experience in the field to recognize that what I see as "obvious" problems with Microsoft products is small, compared to the problems that are solved by Microsoft products.

That's what I hope to educate you about. If you're not active in an industry, it's easy to get distracted by the small issues, because the big issues are being solved behind the scenes.

The problems associated with weed control and crop production, prior to Roundup-Ready? I don't want to go back to that world.



As for your questions, I read some studies that compare the nutritional differences between grass-fed and corn-fed beef, and the differences a negligible. At best, grass-fed beef might have more antioxidants in the fat, but you could get that by having a salad with your steak.

It's a production issue. It takes longer, and more land, to produce beef that is, nutritionally, little different. Problem is, I'm afraid people imagine "grass-fed" animals having this idyllic existence, but a lot of work goes into maintaining grassland.

I mentioned the animals that get hunted to near extinction, to maintain the sanctity of pastures. Reliable, clean water for animals is a problem; dry years they end up drinking out of mud holes. Feed lots usually have some form of shade or water-based cooling systems not commonly found in pasture; cattle are out standing in the wind and hot sun. (I'm drifting a bit from my expertise - this is what I remember from growing up on the farm, but not what I learned in grad school).

Pastureland is not without chemical inputs. Fertilizers are sometimes used, for the reasons I mentioned above - all that good soil nitrogen is sold in town as meat. Pesticides as well. Weeds are a problem in pastureland as well as cropland. Some weeds are simply not palatable - go out in the lawn and eat some dandelions; they're actually pretty good, compared to most weeds. Some hurt - thistles, burrs.

Would not surprise me in the least if more herbicide were sprayed on pastureland, than the equivalent sized crop land with Roundup-Ready crops.

I can't say this for animal science departments with certainty, but I suspect they collaborate with human nutrition departments as they research production methods; I know the crop scientist typically do; that is, I know the scientist in the food science department that collaborates with the wheat breeders on their products.

Labeling, I'm ambivalent. I have no problem with food labels, but I suspect it will be used more as a marketing gimmick, much like "low fat" labels are used, highly visible in some products, to hide the fact that such products are still high calorie. I'm a bigger fan of education.

As for regulation, it's the same issue as anywhere. Didn't we just experience a financial crisis that might be tied to the fact that too many former employees of financial corporations ended up regulating their industries?

It's a double-edged sword. Sure, there's potential for conflict of interest, but who else but an industry insider is going to have sufficient expertise to oversee regulation?

Good luck with your own gardening; everybody should grow what they can. Even with a rental house you have options. You won't be able to grow sweet corn, but windows boxes are a nice touch, and there a good tomato varieties developed for potting.

49

Dakotajudo dropping truth on the armchair argonmists lol.

Organic grown crops are not herb/pest free crops and most of the time have to use more to make up for using less effective solutions which have been shown to be more damaging to the soil/runoff than roundup.

So unless you are growing all of your food yourself in your back yard using no chemicals you should stop quoting Food, INC like you have any clue as to what farming entails and stfu. Phone Post

50

Taku,


I don't believe I said that I base my eating, shopping etc choices on science. I base my choices on my needs, preferences, goals, abilities, limitations, etc.


Maybe I got distracted, but I was really trying to point out the production issues, and what you might need to make an ethical choice.


90% of the time I buy my fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy, fish etc all from local famers markets. Most often I know these people personally. When I say local I mean from within my state. My state is large, so this does not mean I can walk on over and pick the stuff. I do live in a city (urban area) and do not have a yard or place to grow my own stuff. A;though I do have some freinds and family near by who do grow some fruitss and veggies. I avail myself of these as often as possible.


You should, in general, at least, foods that scale well for local production. For some grains, I think, it works better to grow a lot in a small area and ship out, than to try to grow locally in low yielding batches. For the same reason, I tend to prefer fresh fruits and vegetables in season, and canned or frozen out of season. Grains store year 'round, fresh fruit has to be hauled daily.

Although I will admit to a bit of hypocrisy. I eat bananas nearly every day, even though there's not a banana plant in sight. I assuage my guilt with the thought that we ship out a lot of wheat, that doesn't grow well in the tropics.


But you mentioned "organic", frequently. And that's a different issue. Ask your farmers at the market, I would suspect many grow using traditional methods. With organic produce, I'm more concerned about how much is discarded due to insect contamination. Myself, I don't use much insecticide in my garden, and I tolerate the occasional worm or bug track in my veggies.

Hey, moth larvae are extra protein.


I have recently made a switch away from whey protein. Most of my protein comes from meat, chicken, eggs etc. I do eat raw milk from local farms (because I like it).

I sometimes buy organic milk, not because it's organic, but it's the only source I can find for non-homogenized milk. Eh, I like the taste better, but it's too expensive for every day.


Do you personally feel that Monsanto has the peoples best interest at the heart of what they do?

Monsanto, as corporate entity? Corporations exist to make profit, that's a fact of life for most companies. I don't much care for a lot of Monsanto's corporate practices.

That does not detract from the simple fact that the product they make is, as these (http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/17918/PDF ) authors state, a once-in-a-century product.

They are aggressive in protecting their patents, but not really much more so than other crop industries. Even in the public sector, land grant university scientists sue farmers. See http://sdstate.edu/news/articles/pvp-rights.cfm.

I know these people, they do their work with peoples best interest at heart. But as far as protecting their intellectual property, they're not that different than Monsanto or any other corporation.

The ironic thing of this is, is that the wheat breeding program, and wheat producers, have been singularly resistant to Monsanto's technology. Monsanto has tried to introduce Roundup-Ready wheat and has had very little success. Production-wise, it just doesn't make much sense; no real advantage for GM wheats, as yet.


Does Monsanto care about people? As aggressive as they are in enforcing their patents on Western farmers, they do provide a "humanitarian use" exemption for some technologies, and they gave up patent rights to Golden Rice.

Maybe it was misguided - personally, I offended some people when I suggested that the Golden Rice effort would have been better directed toward convincing people to switch to brown rice - but I don't doubt that the individual researchers involved in the product were working for the greater good. A lot of the people involved with Monsanto are not soulless corporate drones.

It's a common choice, I think. Can you do good work for a company that is run by assholes? Can you do the same good work somewhere else?

I write software for a company that produces solutions for many of the large agronomic corporations - but we also work for the public researchers at land grant universities; that's were my heart is, so I accept working for one so I can help the other.

The people I work with, public or private, aren't that much different than each other; most believe in the common goal of solving food security for a growing world. There I some things about companies like Monsanto that I despise, but I hate to paint the whole company with a broad brush.

Personally, though, I buy glyphosate, but I don't buy RoundUp.

51


Yes, as someone who grew up commercial fishing, having worked several years in industrial seafood processing, and having done scientific research for state and federal fish and wildlife offices; and also as someone who hunts and fishes for subsistence (never been to a commercial hunting area, or an area with stocked fish or game). Not that it makes a differernce to the thread or the points I've made (listing qualifications/experience don't, imo, have much place in public internet discussions).

Sometimes it's important.

People learn from their experiences, particularly when the disconnect between theory in practice is great.

With Wikipedia, anyone can be an theoretical expert in an online discussion; I like to know when someone has experience, so I'm not shy about giving my own.


Ultimately, I agree with everything you've written-- ONLY if you note this as applicable only to areas like the US (especially the farming issues you addressed), or even areas like Japan, but this whole idea of destroying natural habitat to make room for crops to feed animals, at least as I was reading the thread, has little to do with farming in countries like the US. But I'm sure you know that the situation is entirely different in, say, Brazil, where farming of beef results in massive deforestation. It would be like me comparing responsible seafood harvest in British Columbia or Maine to the unsustainable methods done out of Taiwan.

Well, we are getting a bit far from the apes, and I certainly couldn't argue about seafood methods (it's something I've read a bit about - what was the book, "7 fish", but I'm a farm boy, we barely got lakes here.

However, and this should probably be my last post in this thread, but there has been already massive deforestation in the United States to make room for crop production. It happened a good 500 years ago, by the pre-European settlers. They cleared forest land for crop production, but not for animal use; instead, they tended to use larger areas for polyculture.

How much of an effect on forestation didi this have? The decimation of the native population, and the resulting reforestation, has been linked to a drop in CO2 enough to trigger the Little Ice Age ( http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/335168/title/Columbus_arrival_linked_to_carbon_dioxide_drop )

I can't speak much to that. I live in what was called the Great American Desert; we never had much trees to begin with.

Although it might be worth noting that even in the pasturelands, native grasses have been replaced by introduced species.

52

ravenman2000, yeah, thanks for those pictures.

Unfortunately, it reminded me of something I ran across years ago, how GH abuse leads to enlarged guts. Reasonable theory - GH promotes excess soft-tissue growth, but can't find anything solid, at least academically, spent the last hour on it.

But you might enjoy

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/articles/fat-loss/595-fat-attack-nov-2005.html

53

the dudes with the guys aren't on a vegetarian diet of any sort so posting them as a physical similarity to a gorilla is quite dumb, Gorillas have digestive tracts that differ from humans as has been stated on page 1 and that his trainer was wrong. 

argu

54

dakotajudo,

Hey brother, again I say wow. I honestly appreciate your time and efforts and passion. I certainly would never claim to be an expert on farming (nor have I ever claimed to be an expert on any other topic).

My take on the Monsanto issue is this: Do people have a right to know, and choose if the foods that they eat are GMO or not? I feel that the answer is yes. If you wish to eat a diet rich in GMO foods, it's your choice. I should be able to readily choose not to. To have the freedom to choose, I must be able to know which foods are GMO and which foods are not.

Thanks for your time. I am going to respectufully bow out of this conversation because I feel I have nothing more to add and I am content with my own personal choices and feelings on the matter.

Best of luck to you moving forward.

TAKU

55
ArthurKnoqOut - 
Gokudamus stole my name - "After reading all that all I can think of is LOL"

I get the same reaction every time i read your vegan hipster diet "advice"

 

nice try but I am neither vegan nor a hipster and my advice has gained me two Olympians and over 2 dozen division I athletes not to mention over a thousand people whose doctors personally thank me for their patients amazing blood work :)

 

 


. What has your advice done? 


Is that why you keep repping vegan products on your fb and twitter? Atleast be a man about your "lifestyle" brah

56

love nutrition threads. sub for later Phone Post

57

So I should stop eating turds?

58

I"d hate to go 3 levels deep on an analogy, but MS's attempt to 'own' the market was seen early and slapped around a lot by regulation. Had they not been it's likely a lot more of your personal information would be owned by MS and their licensing schemes would be even worse than they are now. The same is true of government attempts to censor and control the flow of information on the internet. (See SOPA recently) This isn't conspiracy theory stuff, it's just about $$ (in the case of MS) and power in the case of the US gov.

I understand the aversion to tinfoil hat stuff, but some people do try to educated themselves about what they put in their mouths (and what the nation as a whole does and it's effects) and do draw some logical conclusions based on what they read. That doesn't mean they're an expert, but I'd say it does mean they shouldn't be discounted as a 'wikipedia expert'. I'd say I read a couple nutritional articles a week and I usually go look at cited studies to the extent that they don't lose me. ;)

That aside, I see that most of what you're posting has to do with production/yield. And I understand that monsanto (and others of course, I don't want to single out just them) have helped with the shift towards much greater yields, along with nationwide and worldwide supply chains. This is a good thing in terms of getting food to plates and boosting profits for the companies involved and I get that is the point you're making.

My concern is more one of quality of our food. You mentioned specifically studies about grass fed vs. corn fed beef. I've also read about the antioxidant and omega 3 profiles being better in the grass fed but negligible in terms of the human diet (you get a lot more of the good stuff from a salmon steak, fish oil caps, chia seeds, flax, etc...) but total fat content and cholesterol IS higher in corn fed vs grass fed across the same breed and cuts. For reference this is the review that I read (after reading an alarmist article and googling for the source) and probably the same one you did?

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/10

If the vast majority of what a non-nutri-geek sees when he walks into the meat section in his supermarket is corn fed, higher fat/cal stuff and that's what he eats for dinner every night what happens? Now what happens if there is a similar shift in all of the other foods people eat? I'm talking the corn syrup in everything, hydrogenated veg oil in everything, etc... That is great for low price and shelf life (which probably STARTED as noble goals) but pretty bad for the waistlines and overall health of our nation.

Now this is where we get into the discussion of who is ultimately responsible for a person's health, the individual or the producer. That's a tricky one, right? It's easy enough to say that producers are just giving people what they want and delivering that well. But if you're a results based person you look at where that gets us, with heart disease and obesity rates at shameful levels. This is where regulation and public information about the effects of food are supposed to come into play. And this is where companies like monsanto get themselves their reputation. They've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar subverting the regulatory process, they spend a LOT of money trying to block information like food labeling (7m+ fighting prop 37 in CA for instance) and people are supposed to believe they're on the up and up?

Nowhere would I say throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of advances in food productions. I would expect also that we wouldn't put our heads in the sand and say that yield and profit over the health of our nation isn't an issue with food production either. It's not good enough to say that problems with regulation happen everywhere and there can be conflict of interest. It's clear that there IS and the consequences have been devastating whether it's the financial industry or the food industry.

About growing stuff in the back yard, I think the owner is ok with backyard boxes and any kind of non permanent irrigation. We've got a pretty damn fertile climate here in the PacNW for growing, and I've become such a fan of truly fresh produce that I gotta get moving on this. :)

Finally, Sewich. We're trying to have a discussion here that benefits everyone. If you've got something to add let's hear it. You don't have to pick a team and cheerlead or fight.

59

Hey JH,

Totally up to you. I am all about "pro-choice". If you enjoy eating the turds...Knock yourself out.

TAKU

P.S. try dipping them in Thai Chili-paste for a little spicy kick.

60
Gokudamus stole my name - 
ArthurKnoqOut - 
Gokudamus stole my name - "After reading all that all I can think of is LOL"

I get the same reaction every time i read your vegan hipster diet "advice"
    <p>
        &nbsp;</p>
    <p>
        nice try but I am neither vegan nor a hipster and my advice has gained me two Olympians and over 2 dozen division I athletes not to mention over a thousand people whose doctors personally thank me for their patients amazing blood work :)</p>
    <p>
        &nbsp;</p>
    <p>
        &nbsp;</p>
    <p>
        . What has your advice done?&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<br />
Is that why you keep repping vegan products on your fb and twitter? Atleast be a man about your &quot;lifestyle&quot; brah<br />
&nbsp;</blockquote>

 

I also praise grass fed and free grazing products on those exact social networks, pal. Nice try though. I've specifically stated in both of them the importance of said non-vegan products as well as this very forum itself. 

 

How can I be vegan when I eat mahi mahi, eggs and raw cheese? Funny because 2 months ago I've also posted turkey burgers that my girly and I made.... I must be sooo confused :-\

FURTHERMORE, since you either follow me or e-stalk me or whatever, why don't you search the forums to where I, on at least a dozen occasions, state that what I follow I DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY recommend what I personally do to people I work with, such as intermittent fasts, juicing, cleanses, endurance/adventure running, power lifting, metabolish conditioning, energy system work, HIIT, SAID.

Now, regardless if you are Paleo or vegan, they are all against factory farming, low-grade food (high kcal, low nutrients) and basically have more in common than they do differences. Even Rich Roll, a hardcore vegan/plant powered advocate stated so on many occasions including the JRE... I pride myself on being as versatile as Mike Dolce and if he's a vegan hipster then I welcome that label warmly...

big slacker made some great retorts I'd also add that the post he's replying to seems to be very heavily propaganda (pro Monsanto and co) ridden and that there's some overwhelming contradictions like A. Monsanto has the peoples well-being in the highest priority then B. Monsanto is a corporation and thus is all about profits. C. I don't mind working for them as they have (clearly "just  for show" chairitable works...LIKE HALIBURTON) D. Tell that to farmers in India, Brazil, Venezuala to mention a few, of late.

"Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food. Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the FDA's job ." -- Phil Angell, Monsanto's director of corporate communications, quoted in the New York Times , October 25, 1998

"If you put a label on genetically engineered food you might as well put a skull and crossbones on it." -- Norman Braksick, president of Asgrow Seed Co., a subsidiary of Monsanto, quoted in the Kansas City Star , March 7, 1994