Why are Colby and Usman not submitting guys the same way Khamzat does?

[ArmanTsarukyandMyButthole420]

Well wrestling is about control. Its hard for a good wrestler to go for a sub because were trained to maintain control.

[yulaw]

@Nick_Diaz_Army

Again I revert back to Jorge Masvidal. Both Colby and Usman dominated him for 5 rounds but never came close to finishing him on the ground

Does anyone at all believe Khamzat would not have finished Masvidal in 25 minutes? C’mon. He’d submit him just as he did Holland and Jingliang

Masvidal has a much better ground game than those guys.

[Nick_Diaz_Army]

Masvidal is a former LW. Khamzat struggles to make 170. He’d have no problem at all getting Masvidal down and dominating him. I could see him finishing Jorge in the first round, second round at the latest

[Winston_Wolf]

Masdival has been finished 1 time .I agree Khamzat is twice his size and cuts rediculous weight to make 170 that why he missed by 8 pounds with no apology just more smugness If u want root for someone like that… great.Im not a fan ,Masdival IMO would lose to 14 of the top 15 guys at 170 and ya his style is good for Khamzat…The guy who will give Khamzat trouble is someone who can defend the takedown…Holland has about the worst wrestling ive seen in UFC.Burns a a BJJ who likes to flop to his ass.Id likeot see him fight a wrestler with some KO power

[Ministry_of_Truth]

@Winston_Wolf

Masdival has been finished 1 time

You mean 4 times?

[Winston_Wolf]

i meant submitted but could be wrong

[Wasa-B]

This is an age old question btw. It’s always interesting to see which direction wrestlers take: a striking, control/GNP and/or GNP/subs.

Every mma wrestler is bjj trained, many of the top ones are also bjj bb’s (Usman is iirc) but whether that’s an offensive focus or not is the question. Here are some that became top notch subgrapplers for mma:

Saku
Hughes
Hallman
Faber
Weidman
DJ
Sterling
Shields
Terrell
Lindland

GSP of course was not a wrestler but became arguably the best mma wrestler but also developed very good mma bjj as well (even though he didn’t have too many subs, his positional bjj was top notch).

Khabib, Islam etc as mentioned for Khamzat might be in a diff category since they are not just pure wrestlers but with judo/sambo experience they were already doing subgrappling along with their wrestling. Plus Khabib’s Dad was an MMA coach.

[Winston_Wolf]

twice …Paul Rodrigues and Imada 2 old schoolers last tie subbed 13 years ago

[Vikingknee]

@God_Of_Thunder

That would be considered low fight iq. Why not take the easy safe path to victory? At the end of the day the only goal is to win

This is a low iq response. If usman would have choked out leon on the ground he would still be champ. Colby had Masvidals back half the fight and couldn’t choke him out and he’s lucky he only got dropped to a knee and recovered.

Khamzat is finishing fights without even being punched 1 single time. How is that not the safest way to victory that exists?

[willis007]

Vegito, with all due respect, you can’t win an argument with what ifs and good guesses. Add to the fact that Khamzat has only faced one really good opponent and was nowhere near subbing him. It doesn’t matter if you “think” he would sub Jorge, we would never know until they fight. I know a lot of people thought Askren was gonna grapple Jorge to death. Didn’t happen did it?

[Nick_Diaz_Army]

I wasn’t trying to win any argument. Just comparing the three fighters to one another

What ifs and opinions are what we all do here on the UG though anyways lol

[willis007]

I might accept that if you just said "I believe _________” but not when you say "You can’t tell me you don’t think _________”.

[yulaw]

@Nick_Diaz_Army

Masvidal is a former LW. Khamzat struggles to make 170. He’d have no problem at all getting Masvidal down and dominating him. I could see him finishing Jorge in the first round, second round at the latest

Maia is a former middleweight and one of the greatest grapplers weve ever seen and even he couldnt finish Masvidal.

[Wasa-B]

@yulaw

@Nick_Diaz_Army

Masvidal is a former LW. Khamzat struggles to make 170. He’d have no problem at all getting Masvidal down and dominating him. I could see him finishing Jorge in the first round, second round at the latest

Maia is a former middleweight and one of the greatest grapplers weve ever seen and even he couldnt finish Masvidal.

Yup but styles make fights. Khamzat is not Maia and Maia is not Khamzat.

[Nick_Diaz_Army]

Maia isn’t a wrestler. He’s a grappler. Khamzat is both

[Wasa-B]

Semantics but wrestling is grappling. But same point as mine above.

[MeenB]

There is truth here but Colby doesn’t eve try to set up submissions. He doesn’t even seem to have the intention of finishing fights via submission. When he gets your back he will threaten a rear naked but never goes much further with it. Usman is very similar

[CainLongsteed]

@Ministry_of_Truth

Your post doesn’t make sense, considering hitting someone “in [lol] the head” isn’t a part of wrestling.

PS. I’d much rather be KO’d than have my limb snapped or knee destroyed.

Sure does wrestlers arent martial artists. We go to practice , not class. We dont earn belts we view our skill level based on competition. And beating someones ass means beating their head in.

[yulaw]

Not true, wrestling was a huge part of Maia’s game. He trained at Edge School of Wrestling

http://edgehoboken.com/adult-programs/demian-maia-seminar/

[Live_in_Vegas]

The OP’s question reminds me of the press conference for Condit vs Diaz years ago. Carlos was saying something along the lines of punching Nick in the face and Nick responding with what amounted to “it sounds good doesn’t it? Just come in and punch me in the face end the fight.” I’m sure I’m butchering the exact words but I remember chuckling to myself at the gist of it. Same thing here, just become a next level, special athlete like Khamzat, “no brainer”. Of course Condit won that fight but the point stands, it wasn’t that simple.